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	<title>Comments on: Reflections on Mark Sanford</title>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22679</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22679</guid>
		<description>Eric,
I&#039;m sorry about the absence of links.  I usually think things over before I write about them, and because of that I don&#039;t always have the links at hand.  I&#039;ll try to be better on that.  But it will have to be on some other topic.  I am pretty sure I want to finish thinking about this one.  How about you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,<br />
I&#8217;m sorry about the absence of links.  I usually think things over before I write about them, and because of that I don&#8217;t always have the links at hand.  I&#8217;ll try to be better on that.  But it will have to be on some other topic.  I am pretty sure I want to finish thinking about this one.  How about you?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seymour</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22678</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seymour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22678</guid>
		<description>OK, after about 5 minutes of searching I found the AP article you were talking about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/30/AR2009063001581_2.html).  It is always good to include a link, because although I browse Google News frequently, I hadn&#039;t seen anything on Sanford since Friday.  Therefore, I didn&#039;t understand your question &quot;Can&#039;t this guy shut up?&quot;  Based on pg 1 of the above WaPo story, Sanford granted three hours of interviews over two days.  Does that amount to not shutting up about it?  I guess that&#039;s a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the AP interview says that he made a &quot;failed attempt at a farewell meeting...this past winter&quot; after his wife found out about the affair, and that last month&#039;s trip was made &quot;after his wife expressly told him not to.&quot;  That does make things a lot worse than I&#039;d previously thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, after about 5 minutes of searching I found the AP article you were talking about (<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/30/AR2009063001581_2.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/30/AR2009063001581_2.html)</a>.  It is always good to include a link, because although I browse Google News frequently, I hadn&#8217;t seen anything on Sanford since Friday.  Therefore, I didn&#8217;t understand your question &#8220;Can&#8217;t this guy shut up?&#8221;  Based on pg 1 of the above WaPo story, Sanford granted three hours of interviews over two days.  Does that amount to not shutting up about it?  I guess that&#8217;s a matter of opinion.</p>
<p>Anyway, the AP interview says that he made a &#8220;failed attempt at a farewell meeting&#8230;this past winter&#8221; after his wife found out about the affair, and that last month&#8217;s trip was made &#8220;after his wife expressly told him not to.&#8221;  That does make things a lot worse than I&#8217;d previously thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22677</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22677</guid>
		<description>I believe he revealed that his spiritual adviser accompanied him to a winter meeting in his very recent AP interview that was widely disseminated on multiple sites.  Because he does keep on talking, you know.  And, yes, my knowledge of him predates this incident from his name being included in 2008 on McCain&#039;s short VP list, and his widely reported comments on and refusal of stimulus package funds for his state and the pros and cons of that - also widely reported, and both of those events pre-dated by conversations with acquaintances I have from SC with whom I sometimes discuss current political and other events.  But, no, I wasn&#039;t a critic of him before this incident and his being Republican has nothing to do with my reaction (John Edwards is fully his equal, but he has at least mercifully shut up about it, and never that I am aware of, anyhow, compared himself to Biblical heroes - I think this is what really set me off).  And, I am not following this &quot;very closely&quot; - on the contrary, it&#039;s hard to avoid.  Only when people reveal themselves as complete hypocrites would I bother to be this critical.  

Do I have enough credentials to have a valid opinion on this?  And, just to be clear, I replied originally to Josh&#039;s post, I didn&#039;t start commenting on this all by myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe he revealed that his spiritual adviser accompanied him to a winter meeting in his very recent AP interview that was widely disseminated on multiple sites.  Because he does keep on talking, you know.  And, yes, my knowledge of him predates this incident from his name being included in 2008 on McCain&#8217;s short VP list, and his widely reported comments on and refusal of stimulus package funds for his state and the pros and cons of that &#8211; also widely reported, and both of those events pre-dated by conversations with acquaintances I have from SC with whom I sometimes discuss current political and other events.  But, no, I wasn&#8217;t a critic of him before this incident and his being Republican has nothing to do with my reaction (John Edwards is fully his equal, but he has at least mercifully shut up about it, and never that I am aware of, anyhow, compared himself to Biblical heroes &#8211; I think this is what really set me off).  And, I am not following this &#8220;very closely&#8221; &#8211; on the contrary, it&#8217;s hard to avoid.  Only when people reveal themselves as complete hypocrites would I bother to be this critical.  </p>
<p>Do I have enough credentials to have a valid opinion on this?  And, just to be clear, I replied originally to Josh&#8217;s post, I didn&#8217;t start commenting on this all by myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seymour</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22674</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seymour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22674</guid>
		<description>Mary,

You seem to be following Sanford in the media very closely.  I&#039;m getting the distinct impression that either you have been a critic of Sanford since before his infidelity became public knowledge, or you are eager to maximize the political damage to a man who has shown the potential to be an effective player in the GOP.

I&#039;m not interested in arguing with you over Sanford, but I am curious where you are getting the claim that &quot;he had already broken it off in February, accompanied by his spiritual advisor.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary,</p>
<p>You seem to be following Sanford in the media very closely.  I&#8217;m getting the distinct impression that either you have been a critic of Sanford since before his infidelity became public knowledge, or you are eager to maximize the political damage to a man who has shown the potential to be an effective player in the GOP.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not interested in arguing with you over Sanford, but I am curious where you are getting the claim that &#8220;he had already broken it off in February, accompanied by his spiritual advisor.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22673</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22673</guid>
		<description>&quot;Either way, he did what I’d consider to be the honorable thing–he travelled to Argentina to break it off with his mistress.&quot;

Sure, after he had already broken it off in February, accompanied by his spiritual adviser.

&quot;Sanford’s response was certainly better than that of former U.S. Senator John Edwards.&quot;

Which response, Wednesday&#039;s, Friday&#039;s, today&#039;s, tomorrow&#039;s?  Can&#039;t this guy shut up?  He talks about his &quot;tragic&quot; &quot;forbidden&quot; love.  His four boys really need to hear about that.  All of us really need to hear about that.  Next we will start hearing about how his wife, who funded his political career AND ran his campaigns with babies in her arms, was just not up to some other parts of her job.  Can&#039;t he give it a rest?  This guy is completely self-absorbed and completely un-self-aware.  Yes, by all means, let&#039;s still give him a chance to run for president.  Any Sanford fans out there still chomping at the bit to run to his defense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Either way, he did what I’d consider to be the honorable thing–he travelled to Argentina to break it off with his mistress.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, after he had already broken it off in February, accompanied by his spiritual adviser.</p>
<p>&#8220;Sanford’s response was certainly better than that of former U.S. Senator John Edwards.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which response, Wednesday&#8217;s, Friday&#8217;s, today&#8217;s, tomorrow&#8217;s?  Can&#8217;t this guy shut up?  He talks about his &#8220;tragic&#8221; &#8220;forbidden&#8221; love.  His four boys really need to hear about that.  All of us really need to hear about that.  Next we will start hearing about how his wife, who funded his political career AND ran his campaigns with babies in her arms, was just not up to some other parts of her job.  Can&#8217;t he give it a rest?  This guy is completely self-absorbed and completely un-self-aware.  Yes, by all means, let&#8217;s still give him a chance to run for president.  Any Sanford fans out there still chomping at the bit to run to his defense?</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Betow</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22666</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Betow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22666</guid>
		<description>Sanford&#039;s response was certainly better than that of former U.S. Senator John Edwards.  I was tempted to support Edwards in 2004, but went for Howard Dean, instead.  With Edwards not only cheating on his wife but making the &quot;excuse&quot; that her cancer was in remission, he secured his role as a heel.  Further, his explanation of why he built such a large home (28,000 square feet) was ludicrous, considering that the Edwards, while giving subsantially to charities over a ten year period, still fell a good bit short of a Biblical tithe.

Expectations may hurt Sanford more than comparative morality.  That is, Newt Gingrich who wants to be taken seriously for the 2012 GOP bomination, has a long history of both infidelity and crass behavior toward women he seeks to divorce.  So Sanford, who may very well be on the whole, adhering to greater ethics than Gingrich, he will probably suffer more for it because many of Gingriches ideas are so greatly admired, news of divorce and affairs seem to be his par expectation.

As for Rudy, I never quite got how he expected to get religious conservatives on board when he announced his divorce filing decision on TV, without first telling his wife.

And taking a page from the anti-Clinton playbook, (perjury versus mere lies), Sanford could have a hard time convincing enough of his maturity level in as much as he left the state without a clear communication of who was in charge in his absence.

In Oklahoma, when the Governor and Lt. Governor are of different parties, the guv often travels far less, because the number two person becomes acting governor, with the right of independent action and powers pretty much that of the governor.  This seems illogical in the days of cell phones, fairly rapid travel such, but long established precedents rooted in the state constitution die hard. From 2003 to 2007, Oklahoma had such a split, and Lt. Governor Mary Fallin (no criticism intended) made for a very assertive leader in times of the governor&#039;s absence.  She now serves in Congress and is seeking the 2010 Oklahoma GOP nomination for governor.

It would seem to me that while Sanford&#039;s affair was a great moral failing, for the office he serves, leaving the state with key leaders seemingly in the dark would make for some easy ads against his work ethic. However, if Sanford were to serve his state well and be a good example in intervening years, a credible candidacy for presidency in 2016, if the slot is open, is not yet out of the question for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sanford&#8217;s response was certainly better than that of former U.S. Senator John Edwards.  I was tempted to support Edwards in 2004, but went for Howard Dean, instead.  With Edwards not only cheating on his wife but making the &#8220;excuse&#8221; that her cancer was in remission, he secured his role as a heel.  Further, his explanation of why he built such a large home (28,000 square feet) was ludicrous, considering that the Edwards, while giving subsantially to charities over a ten year period, still fell a good bit short of a Biblical tithe.</p>
<p>Expectations may hurt Sanford more than comparative morality.  That is, Newt Gingrich who wants to be taken seriously for the 2012 GOP bomination, has a long history of both infidelity and crass behavior toward women he seeks to divorce.  So Sanford, who may very well be on the whole, adhering to greater ethics than Gingrich, he will probably suffer more for it because many of Gingriches ideas are so greatly admired, news of divorce and affairs seem to be his par expectation.</p>
<p>As for Rudy, I never quite got how he expected to get religious conservatives on board when he announced his divorce filing decision on TV, without first telling his wife.</p>
<p>And taking a page from the anti-Clinton playbook, (perjury versus mere lies), Sanford could have a hard time convincing enough of his maturity level in as much as he left the state without a clear communication of who was in charge in his absence.</p>
<p>In Oklahoma, when the Governor and Lt. Governor are of different parties, the guv often travels far less, because the number two person becomes acting governor, with the right of independent action and powers pretty much that of the governor.  This seems illogical in the days of cell phones, fairly rapid travel such, but long established precedents rooted in the state constitution die hard. From 2003 to 2007, Oklahoma had such a split, and Lt. Governor Mary Fallin (no criticism intended) made for a very assertive leader in times of the governor&#8217;s absence.  She now serves in Congress and is seeking the 2010 Oklahoma GOP nomination for governor.</p>
<p>It would seem to me that while Sanford&#8217;s affair was a great moral failing, for the office he serves, leaving the state with key leaders seemingly in the dark would make for some easy ads against his work ethic. However, if Sanford were to serve his state well and be a good example in intervening years, a credible candidacy for presidency in 2016, if the slot is open, is not yet out of the question for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seymour</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22665</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seymour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22665</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m finally getting around to commenting on this, and I have a couple thoughts...

Mary says that Sanford was &quot;caught&quot; in his infidelity.  However, from what I&#039;ve read it appears that there was no public knowledge of the affair until Sanford announced it.  So, either he couldn&#039;t ignore his own conscience any longer, or perhaps his wife figured it out.  Either way, he did what I&#039;d consider to be the honorable thing--he travelled to Argentina to break it off with his mistress, and then publicly admitted what he&#039;d done.

This certainly hurts Sanford&#039;s political standing--particularly with social conservatives--but I wouldn&#039;t call his political career over.  I wouldn&#039;t even rule out a presidential candidacy.  After all, John McCain and John Kerry were both divorced--granted, not the best examples since they both lost their campaigns, but the point being that marital troubles do not make it impossible for a person to launch a viable campaign for president in this day and age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m finally getting around to commenting on this, and I have a couple thoughts&#8230;</p>
<p>Mary says that Sanford was &#8220;caught&#8221; in his infidelity.  However, from what I&#8217;ve read it appears that there was no public knowledge of the affair until Sanford announced it.  So, either he couldn&#8217;t ignore his own conscience any longer, or perhaps his wife figured it out.  Either way, he did what I&#8217;d consider to be the honorable thing&#8211;he travelled to Argentina to break it off with his mistress, and then publicly admitted what he&#8217;d done.</p>
<p>This certainly hurts Sanford&#8217;s political standing&#8211;particularly with social conservatives&#8211;but I wouldn&#8217;t call his political career over.  I wouldn&#8217;t even rule out a presidential candidacy.  After all, John McCain and John Kerry were both divorced&#8211;granted, not the best examples since they both lost their campaigns, but the point being that marital troubles do not make it impossible for a person to launch a viable campaign for president in this day and age.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22654</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22654</guid>
		<description>Oh.  Okay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh.  Okay.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Claybourn</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22653</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Claybourn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22653</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s pretty clear in the context of those posts that I was referring to him as the &quot;Savior&quot; and &quot;Shining Star&quot; of the Republican Party. Thus, it is in the political and policy context, not in some sort of character or moral context, as I would typically use to define &quot;hero&quot;. These phrases - &quot;Savior&quot; and &quot;Shining Star&quot; - are also used by numerous other conservative publications and were used in the same context I was using them. They were not using them interchangeably with &quot;hero,&quot; and neither was I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty clear in the context of those posts that I was referring to him as the &#8220;Savior&#8221; and &#8220;Shining Star&#8221; of the Republican Party. Thus, it is in the political and policy context, not in some sort of character or moral context, as I would typically use to define &#8220;hero&#8221;. These phrases &#8211; &#8220;Savior&#8221; and &#8220;Shining Star&#8221; &#8211; are also used by numerous other conservative publications and were used in the same context I was using them. They were not using them interchangeably with &#8220;hero,&#8221; and neither was I.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/06/reflections_on_mark_sanford/comment-page-1/#comment-22652</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intheagora.com/?p=4211#comment-22652</guid>
		<description>&quot;but it’s rather presumptive of you to suggest that he’s a hero of mine.&quot;

I guess I misread the meaning of headlines &quot;Savior&quot; and &quot;Shining Star&quot; as well as the words embedded in the copy of links one and two.  But you&#039;re right, the tone changed in the third link.  Were you on to something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but it’s rather presumptive of you to suggest that he’s a hero of mine.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess I misread the meaning of headlines &#8220;Savior&#8221; and &#8220;Shining Star&#8221; as well as the words embedded in the copy of links one and two.  But you&#8217;re right, the tone changed in the third link.  Were you on to something?</p>
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