Comments on: Boobs

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:29:09 +0000

Come on guys lets get REAL!!! Breastfeeding is a natural proccess and is really NO BIG DEAL. Get over it all you pansy asssed tight lipped conservatives and pay attention to more important subjects! ENOUGH ALREADY

By: Nick

Nick — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:34:08 +0000

If philosopher’s “right to breastfeed” law would prohibit the owner of a store or restaurant from asking patrons not to nurse infants on the premises, I would oppose such a law from a libertarian standpoint. In fact, such a law seems to be what many “lactivists” are seeking

Such laws already exist in many states:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/summary.html

Typically, the language of the laws includes things like this:
“Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breast feed in any public or private location where she is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother’s breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.” (North Carolina).

Most of the laws seem to cover privately owned facilities that function as public accomodations (e.g. restaurants, malls, etc). This is presumably in recognition of the fact that there a very few truly “public” (i.e. not privately owned)facilities these days.

The language of laws in some conservative southern states (e.g. South Carolina, Virginia, Utah) specifically exempt breastfeeding mothers from indecent exposure laws.

By: Eric Seymour

Eric Seymour — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:12:02 +0000

Talking about passing laws is clearly not as easy as talking about reaching consensus on societal norms.
If philosopher’s “right to breastfeed” law would prohibit the owner of a store or restaurant from asking patrons not to nurse infants on the premises, I would oppose such a law from a libertarian standpoint. In fact, such a law seems to be what many “lactivists” are seeking (minus the “all due modesty” clause).
Instead, I’d say that “lactivists” should vote with their dollars, and if a restaurant is unfriendly to nursing mothers they can boycott it. If there is a problem with law enforcement harassing mothers nursing discreetly in public places (or on private property with the owners’ consent), then perhaps there could be a law to rectify that situation. But I’m not convinced there is any problem beyond the attitudes of those on the extreme ends of this issue.

By: philosopher

philosopher — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 04:55:05 +0000

My $0.02: we should have laws that establish a woman’s right to breastfeed, with some sort of “with all due modesty” clause or something like that (I bet that there’s off-the-shelf legal language for that somewhere), which would basically mean taking some basic measure to keep nipples out of sight. And the rest should be up to local politeness norms, which will of course vary from place to place.

By: Michael LoPrete

Michael LoPrete — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 03:21:09 +0000

Eric,
I can agree with you, and I think we can gather general consensus, that a mother ought to be able to publicly, but discreetly, nurse their child. Certainly, we can say they should, and I think I would agree with that.
It leads me to two different but important questions. First, should the government protect mothers who nurse publicly but discreetly? Second, should we penalize those mothers who are less than discreet?

By: Eric Seymour

Eric Seymour — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:51:24 +0000

Furthermore, to highlight a good point made by Joshua Allem up-thread (which was obscured by an anaolgy to urination), in American society the female breast *is* considered a private part. Regardless of European norms, New York beaches, or the way some folks thing things ought to be, in most places in the U.S. it is against the law for women to expose their breasts in public. The vast majority of people accept nursing as an exception to this rule, but in return we ask that mothers nursing in public be discreet about it.

By: Eric Seymour

Eric Seymour — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:42:25 +0000

Michael, I’ll take you up on the religious analogy. Take, for example, a person quietly praying over their meal at a restaurant. Might make some unreligious people slightly uncomfortable, but I can’t imagine anyone suggesting they shouldn’t do so.
On the other hand, let’s say a group of churchgoers is walking along in a mall when one of them suddenly trips and falls, spraining her ankle. They all decide the best thing to do is to form a circle around the injured person to lay hands on her, and begin praying aloud, lifting their hands, perhaps even speaking in tongues…basically an impromptu Pentecostal prayer service.
I would think that most people would feel that sort of public display of religion is inappropriate–that they should find a more discreet location or method for praying for their friend. And that despite the fact that the Constitution explicitly protects the free exercise of religion.
Both of these are behaviors which our society considers “private.” When the need arises to do them in a public place, it is polite to do so discreetly.

By: Michael LoPrete

Michael LoPrete — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:55:27 +0000

Eric,
I think you’re right to call on tulipgirl to provide support for her statement, but I find myself agreeing with the point. Public displays of sexual intimacy do make our society uncomfortable; your example of a couple making out in public is a case in point. But breastfeeding is not sexual at all, so I would encourage those of us still participating in the thread to find a better analogy.
Take religious intimacy, for example. Though I’m rusty on my scripture, I believe it is Jesus who tells us that private worship is a virture, as it cleanses any doubts about showmanship or peer pressure. I would also venture to add that private worship is more intimate than public worship. But that leads me to ask: can public worship also be intimate, and is that something our society tends to encourage or discourage?

By: Eric Seymour

Eric Seymour — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:41:01 +0000

“The reality is”? Hmm… Such an authoritative statement–I presume you have some sociological research which backs up that assertion?

By: TulipGirl

TulipGirl — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:17:50 +0000

“Nevertheless, I think it is the intimate nature of the mother-child connection during nursing that makes many people uncomfortable when it is done in public.”
While it would be nice if that were the case, the reality is the discomfort stems less from the closeness of the mother/child bond and more from our societies reluctance to see breasts as something other than a sexual object.