Did this happen in other communities? I read an article in yesterday’s Free Press that left me scratching my head and thinking “Huh?” This was the first part of the article (link to the complete article is at the end):

"A handful of metro Detroiters are trying to expand Thursday's National Day of Prayer from a politically charged, Christian-only event into a broader celebration of America's religious diversity.

'We can't sit back and leave this day to the Christian-only events that people are organizing in many places,' said Padma Kuppa, a Hindu educator from Troy who was involved in a clash over the event last year in Troy that drew national attention.

'The future of our country depends on Americans like me stepping forward, too, and helping to serve our communities.

'Some of our voices may sound a little different when we pray, but we won't have healthy communities unless our voices are heard, too,' she said Monday."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/NEWS05/605030394/1007

My reason for incredulity is, what do people think a “National Day of Prayer” is going to do? It’s not lobbying – it’s not like if people who don’t believe in the God of the Bible are going to get any attention from anyone by their participation.

The point of the National Day of Prayer is to pray to God about things that are important to Christians about our nation. Even if the President issued a proclamation authorizing it, it’s not like those who aren’t Christians are going to be excluded from anything because they aren’t.

It’s not about diversity or interfaith or any of the other labels put on these efforts. What are they praying for and to whom? Why horn in on something they affirm that they don’t believe in?

Nobody said they couldn't organize their own faith-based events, but why in the world do they have to barge in and impose their faith (or lack thereof) on people who believe in the power of prayer and want to congregate to express and exercise that belief?

Would they grant the same rights to Christians who, for example, wanted to barge into a mosque and start praying and singing hymns in the name of diversity and interfaith freedom?

I just don't get it.

Actually, I guess 'I just don't get' your comment, LC. You say, "The point of the National Day of Prayer is to pray to God about things that are important to Christians about our nation.", which is just plain wrong. I can't find any evidence that the National Day of Prayer was ever conceived to be specific to Christians or Christianity, and plenty to support that it was always intended to be a day for all Americans of all faiths to pray to their god/gods (or not of course). Of course here it is largely the Christian activities that get the attention, since obviously the overwhelming majority of Americans are Christians. I would guess that it would actually be unconstitutional for the government to declare a National Day of Christian Prayer.

I don't think your analogy in about barging into a mosque really holds; the *government* sets the National Day of Prayer, not churches.

Maybe I misread whatever point you were trying to make; but you my impression is that you mistakenly think that the day is about Christianity, when it plainly says its about prayer. Do you object to interfaith activities?

Mr. Kuppa (quoted in the Free-Press article) is wrong. The NDoP is not a "Christian-only" event. Not officially, anyway. The fact that the vast majority of NDoP commemorations are Christian simply reflects that the vast majority of religious Americans are Christian. Also, the article is wrong that the event is "politically-charged." It seems pretty apolitical to me. Perhaps they are confusing it with those "Justice Sunday" events?

An "official" prayer was written by Dr. Henry Blackaby for the event and it is very Christian and refers to specific scripture in the Bible. This is the Mission Statement copied from the NDoP website "The National Day of Prayer Task Force's mission is to communicate with every individual the need for personal repentance and prayer, mobilizing the Christian community to intercede for America and its leadership in the five centers of power: Church, Education, Family, Government and Media." I don't have a problem with interfaith activities, but I don't think that this is one of them. I went to our city hall yesterday and it was a Christian event. Check out their website if you have any questions www.ndptf.org

The NDoP Task Force is definitely Christian, but I don't believe there is anything 'official' about them with relation to the National Day of Prayer. The website above says, "We are the Judeo-Christian expression of the National Day of Prayer which was established in 1952 by a joint resolution of the United States Congress and signed into law by President Harry S. Truman." I think the key word is 'expression', which implies that even they recognize to some extent that this day is not exclusively about Christianity.
Whatever gatherings the Task Force organizes may not be interfaith, but I don't have much doubt that the National Day of Prayer itself is.

The ndptf web address ends .org and not .gov, and any other religion could do the same thing and without being accused of trying to exclude other religions. The sad part to me is that Christians have to be rallied to do on one day what they should be doing everyday.

I think there is something to be said for corporate prayer and to me that is the motive. I, for one, do pray every day but it was nice to see folks from other local churches and pray with them for 15 minutes...

This is the language of 36 U.S.C. §119:

The President shall issue each year a proclamation designating the first Thursday in May as a National Day of Prayer on which the people of the United States may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals.

Note that the language says "may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals."

My point was not that people are being prohibited from gathering in prayer, or that they ought to be excluded. No one is insisting that the National Day of Prayer be reserved only for Christians; those Christian organizations who organize events are entitled to do so, not only by the Constitution but also by the above-referenced statute.

So why are people in the metro Detroit area complaining about being "excluded?" They can organize their own events - the article asserted that these complainers were somehow excluded, and my question was (and still is) excluded from what? And if it's organized by a Christian organization, why are people of other faiths demanding to be let in?

"...the *government* sets the National Day of Prayer, not churches."

That's why I raised the issue, though, is because local observations are not organized by the government - they're organized by private groups or citizens. And since that is the case, what difference does it make to Hindus, Muslems, Buddhists, or whoever how the observation is run?

The article specifically said that "A handful of metro Detroiters are trying to expand Thursday's National Day of Prayer from a politically charged, Christian-only event into a broader celebration of America's religious diversity."

The statute authorizing Presidential proclamations setting a National Day of Prayer stated that it is so that "the people of the United States may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals."

If individuals are members of faiths that do not "turn to God in prayer and meditation", why are they demanding that the observation be a "celebration of America's religious diversity" instead of a day in which to pray for our country? That's the first question.

The second is, whom are such people praying to? Because the Bible says, "You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. **You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me..."

Are people who ask if there is a "problem" with "interfaith activities" asserting that Christians must participate in services in which people pray to someone or something other than God or permit people attending those services to pray to someone or something other than God?

Just so it's clear, I'm not saying that other faiths can't or shouldn't hold their own events, do their own services, or participate in the National Day of Prayer in accordance with their own beliefs, regardless of what I think about the validity of those beliefs. And this is not a difference in denomination - the objection isn't between Baptists and Methodists or any similar denominational difference; it's a serious theological and doctrinal issue.

Given the language of the statute authorizing a National Day of Prayer and the existence of Christian-oriented events in observation of that day, the claim that members of other religions should enforce a change in the private observation of that day from one of like faiths praying or gathering together into "a celebration of America's religious diversity" violates the clear and unambiguous language of the statute and, in my opinion, is a direct violation of Scripture.

LC, I read the article you linked to differently. First, the general gist of the article to me was that non-Christians wanted to participate in the National Day of Prayer, which has for obvious reasons been Christian-dominated. I don't see them as 'complainers', and the word 'exclude' isn't even used in the article. I assume that you are referring to the conflict in Troy, which the article doesn't really give enough information about to find out exactly what was at issue.

Of course Christians mustn't participate in anything they don't want to, like interfaith events, if they object to them. My question was whether that was your objection and whether you were under the impression that the National Day of Prayer is really for Christians, which you have clarified a little.

The clear and unambiguous language of the statute says nothing about how the 'prayers and meditation' manifest themselves or how they are organized or to which 'God' is being prayed to; I'm missing how you think that a celebration of religious diversity is in opposition to that and isn't just another manifestation of prayer. For instance, the article also notes the times and places in Troy where the respective Christian and the interfaith gatherings are being held; is the interfaith one objectionable because it is by definition a celebration of religious diversity? I certainly see nothing objectionable to people of different faiths coming together as a group praying or meditating in their respective ways as a group of *Americans*.

Direct violations of how you interpret scripture isn't really relevant or binding to anyone who doesn't share your faith and interpretation, and since you seem to admit that the National Day of Prayer is not just for Christians, I don't know why you bring it up. I'm sure Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, are asking the same second question as you are except about Christians, 'who are you praying to?'

I think you're missing the point, Dave, and I'm not sure whether it's intentional or just a lack of understanding. The people quoted in the article were _protesting_ that the events scheduled _did not include them_, even though they did not share the same faith as those organizing _the event_.

With respect to your statement that "the National Day of Prayer, which has for obvious reasons been Christian-dominated" assumes, at a minimum, that 1) there has, in fact, been "domination" by Christians to the exclusion of other faiths, 2) that the alleged Christian "domination" has been by force (since these people felt excluded), and 3) that the National Day of Prayer can only be a strictly Christian observation as a result of this "domination."

The specific statement (which I quoted directly from the article) was that the protests were a result of "a clash over _the event_ last year in Troy that drew national attention." They were protesting the event being identified as a "Christian" event in observation of the day - not the day itself.

The fact that the individual made the statement "we can't sit back and leave this day to the Christian-only _events_" coupled with the report of "a clash over _the event_" is the basis for the conclusion that the objectors felt excluded and wanted to force the organizers of the event to include _them_.

No one is saying that other faiths can't have their own events, or that they can't participate in those being sponsored by certain groups. The concern I have about the proposition is that the reported protest and clashing occurred because those of other religions were not GIVEN something in these privately run, privately sponsored events - and my question is, why would they care? If it's not their religion, why would they care about what happens at SOMEONE ELSE'S EVENT? They don't espouse the same doctrine, they don't pray to the same God - why would they want to horn in on an event being conducted to seek intervention of a God they don't believe in?

My citation to the Bible was in support of the reasons why anyone seeking to "force" interfaith or diversity claims onto an existing event organized by a private group would be violating not only that group's right to freely exercise their own religion but also the doctrinal tenets of that religion.

The claim of religious diversity or interfaith tolerance ignors the direct word of Scripture where God said, "You shall have no other Gods before Me. ... You shall not worship them nor shall you serve them...." What is prayer to someone or something other than God but a violation of this commandment?

That doesn't mean people can't do whatever they want - I can think they're wrong, and I can show you what the Bible has to say about it, but people can do whatever they want. However, the idea that a group of people who does not believe in the Bible or in the tenets of the Christian faith would demand to be "included" in a prayer meeting or service at which the focus is on God (and further that they would DEMAND equal time or attention) is absurd and is what led to my question.

That's the real issue - if they want to have their own event, go for it. Hold a press conference - have a parade - I don't care. Just don't interfere with someone else's event.

The interpretation of this discussion that a private organization's desire to manage its activities according to the organizer's wishes without interference from others protesting is somehow "in opposition to religious diversity" reflects a lack of understanding of the issue.

The difference is not about who can or can't/should or shouldn't observe the day - it's about whether a group of individuals can force (either directly or by intimidation) another group of individuals to "include them" and their religious practices. That's what concerns me.

And in response to your comment that "I'm sure Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, are asking the same second question as you are except about Christians, 'who are you praying to?'", if they really were asking the same "second question", they wouldn't be so concerned about what Christians are doing and would focus more on doing their own things.

You don't see anything in the news about Christians trying to expand Muslim or any other religious groups holy days or legal holidays or other observances "into a broader celebration of America's religious diversity."

I think the issue LC is as much a lack of clear communication as anything. The interfaith group initially asked to be included in the NDoP Task Force Christian event at City Hall, and eventually decided they didn't want to be a part of it because the Task Force is a Christian group. I agree with you that since this is a private organization, their right to have a Christian-only event at City Hall can't be infringed, but I think there's a lot of room for confusion by other religious groups that the city of Troy is somehow endorsing a strictly Christian event. It doesn't help that the Task Force names itself after the day and whose website is the self-declared, 'National Day of Prayer Official Web Site'.
Christian 'dominated' was a poor choice of words on my part; I meant it only in the way that most events on the National Day of Prayer are sponsored by Christian groups or churches only because they are the majority of the population.

"You don't see anything in the news about Christians trying to expand Muslim or any other religious groups holy days or legal holidays or other observances "into a broader celebration of America's religious diversity."

Exactly what holy day or legal holidays are Muslims trying to expand? If you're saying that they shouldn't try to expand a specific group's observance as in this case, well maybe, but they surely have the right to protest and you (and I probably) have the right to disagree with the protestation.

I think part of the misunderstanding results from a lack of knowledge of the city of Troy's history with this event.

Christians sponsored a National Day of Prayer event in front of the Troy City Hall for the past ten years. Yet, when their 2005 application was submitted by the Troy National Day of Prayer Christian Task Force, city administrators attempted to force them to make it an interfaith event.

Without notifying the Task Force coordinator Lori Wagner, the application was altered and placed on the Council’s agenda. When Wagner discovered the change she immediately asked that the altered application be removed and the original resubmitted. The Council subsequently rejected the resubmitted application.

Christians encouraged and supported separate events for other faith groups on the same day and place, but at different times. Nevertheless, they wanted their own Christian event, as they had for the previous ten years. It was evident that some city officials were trying to force Christians to change their message by refusing to grant them a permit unless they allowed prayers from people of different religions.

The Troy group supported and continues to support the efforts of all groups to conduct their own events in front of City Hall. In 2005, the interfaith representatives didn’t want to do that; however, they later agreed and so did the council. When the council passed a resolution on March 28 granting _both_ the Christian and interfaith groups different times for their distinct NDP events, the interfaith group later withdrew their application but _continued their attempts to persuade the Council to deny the Christian group their right to hold their meeting_.

That's the issue - and that's the basis for my objection. Living in Michigan near the city of Troy, it's a little closer to home for me than perhaps for people who live in different states, but that was why I asked if the same controversy was going on in other states.

I ended up reading much of what you wrote about the Troy situation last night, since the original Free Press article was very sketchy about it. I think the original miscommunication was when you referred to the NDoP as a day for Christians to pray to God, and I inferred you meant the day was designated for Christians specifically; you've clarified that. I actually live just a few miles away from Troy myself. I don't agree with the interfaith's group trying to prevent the Task Force from holding it's gathering, and I had not read that they were still doing that; I thought once they decided they didn't want anything to do with the TF's gathering that they decided the best place was in another location.

On the other hand, I think it's a pity that the Task Force itself doesn't want to participate in an interfaith event, which to me would be much more in the spirit of the NDoP. I know what you're getting at as far as the, 'have no other gods before me' quote, but I don't really think at interfaith events that anyone is being asked to pray to someone else's god so I don't think it's applicable. I think that if the Task Force is actually conducting a prayer in front of City Hall, it also brings up whether that is in opposition to the biblical directive about not being like the hypocrites praying loudly in the corner/go pray in your closet, but that's a whole other conversation.

As far as other states, it appeared that there was some kind of disagreement in Muncie, but I'm not sure of the details.