Peter Pan was right about ties. The necktie is a noose disguised as a fashion accessory.

Maybe you could give some examples of what kind of music dignified adults do listen to....

"When I was ten I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
- C.S. Lewis

Not that I'm defending the entirety of the Grup mentality, but there's something to be said for not sacrificing your youthful passions just because they're not not "grown-up" enough.

I think what we should be getting at here is the large number of people who are now 40-ish (with kids!) who still don't take any more responsibility for themselves than they did when they were teenagers.

You know who I'm talking about - the people who take screaming toddlers to R-rated movies on Friday nights, who engage their 7-year-olds in philosohpical debates about why they can't have that piece of candy (which debates only last until the child starts crying and proptly gets its way), and about a billion other examples.

Those just happen to be a couple I've personally seen and which frankly irritated the crap out of me.

Anyway, I don't see anything inherently wrong with adults who follow younger trends. I didn't follow high school trends even when I was in high school (I never owned a Big Johnson or Hypercolor t-shirt), but if an adult thinks that spending $450 on some ripped jeans is somehow more important than dropping $4500 on an oak dining table and a leather sofa, who am I to question? Both are examples of crass consumerism, and arguably, immaturity - a used sofa and table and some Old Navy jeans would mean that you could stick $4000 in a Roth IRA - but I just don't see any necessary difference between what expensive crap an adult wastes his/her money on.

I think the important distinction is between adults who take responsibility for their actions and adults who don't.

I agree wholeheartedly with Nick. Responsibility and maturity is the key. The music you listen to and the clothes you wear should be your own choice--though I reserve the right to not take seriously anyone in a hoodie and jeans trying to sell me any major goods or services.

And the "my kid is my best friend" thing is completely lame, and bad parenting. Anyone who has been watching Survivor this season will know--Shane is the ultimate grup!

Eric: no doubt. Just because I don't see anything inherently wrong with 40-somethings in Dead Kennedys t-shirts and acid wash jeans doesn't mean that I'm going give them as much credit as somebody who dresses their age.

The clothes, to some extent, do make the man. (Or woman.)

I guarantee none of those guys on the cover of NY Mag are in PR or are investment bankers. However, if you ARE a NYC music lawyer, a&r guy, writer for tv, work just about anywhere in the movie and tv production end of the industry, work for an in-house art dept, are an art director or copywriter at an ad agency, a professional photographer, photo stylist or are in hair and makup, work in the fashion industry, etc, you just don't EVER show up for work in a blazer and khakis. Get over it.

And what's the cut-off age for enjoying Arcade Fire?

[blockquote]Maybe I'm having a quarter-life crisis...[/blockquote]

You know the numbering of your days? Hmmmm...

I enjoyed the piece. One question: aren't there at least some things about what most consider adulthood that can be scrapped?

I think you're missing the point a tad, JohnS. The point isn't that it's wholly unacceptable for adults to ever wear torn jeans and "ironic" paisley shirts (or whatever), it's that it's generally unacceptable for them to do so.

Regardless of what exactly the article says, I think it would just as immature for someone in a position JohnS describes to show up to their job in a three-piece suit as it would be for an investment banker to show up to work in a Panic! At The Disco shirt.

And there's no upper age limit for appreciating new music; it's just that there's a generally accepted upper limit for, say, plastering your bedroom walls with their posters. That's why I want a den. :)

I'm sorry, I may have missed the point, Nick, but I'm just a New Yorker who stopped subscribing (after 15+ years) to NY Mag for just such b.s. articles as these (about sub-cults of sub-cults that your ex-wife's new boyfriend heard about!!!) - written by the same people the mag is taking potshots at! It's been a long slow decline for NY Mag since it's heyday when grownups like Milton Glaser, Gael Greene, and (I'm gagging here) Joe Klein working for it.

Just wait for their big summer issues on power houses in the Hamptons and kvetches about the fat beer-gutted Midwesterners with golf shirts, madras shorts and open-toed sandals who fill up the double decker tourbuses that sometimes run over little old ladies living in old-school rent stabilized apartments in Stuy Town.

Sorry for the bile, but this article is so typical of NY Mag. Do such unrepentant, unrelenting hep cats really roam free on Ave B or the halls of Comedy Central? Trust me, this is a very tough town. If you are pushing, (or are in your 40s), you're not so concerned about holes in your jeans as you are about taxes, your kids' schools, and mortgage payments, just like the rest of American humanity. And no, NY Mag didn't do it to me, but I know a number of people they HAVE done it too.

Excellent blog entry, David!! I'm with you buddy! I'm 31 years old and have grown tired searching for adults. I used to think the order of things went from babies to little kids to just kids, then teenagers to adulthood. Of course, adulthood was always seperated into young adult, middle aged and then elderly. But now the teenager atmosphere seems to stretch all the way up to 35!! What happened? Even the 20somethings on tv's FRIENDS behave more adult than the 20somethings of today! And FRIENDS was just out ten years ago!! My sister is 26 years old and still watches THE REAL WORLD on MTV. She's got all of her friends on MYPSACE! Unless your shorts are hanging down below your knees with your upper bottom showing, you're just so uncool! When did this all start? I consider myself a pretty cool dude for 31, but my sister and all her friends say I act 50! But I tell them that I act my age and everyone else is acting like teenagers. What's going on?

While I don't live in the target Grup environment (downtown urban), I have the advantage of being around youth (college town) that really helps to keep me young. I'm pretty much in agreement with Nick's point that maturity and responsibility are much more adequate markers of the person, though at the same time recognizing the inherrent necessity of clothing in some positions. Traditional growing up sucks, and I have little intention of doing so. I do own a suit, and like to get dressed up from time to time, but I have only worn a tie once since getting married, don't own a single pair of dockers, and really only want to go to management seminars if they are somewhere where the downtime will be fun. I turn 28 in just over a month and I'm typcially wearing jeans and a casual polo while managing my IT staff. I really think that one can blur the lines a great deal.

it is a very different culture now a days. i am a 31 year old single parent of an 11 year old boy and ii find my son and i have an awesome relationship becuase i had him when i was 19 years old. not saying that "unless you have your child out of wedlock and in your teen years you will not have a good relationship with your kids" but my son and i have such a great opened relationship and i think it's because he and I have been growing up together over the past 11 years. I still laugh at the stupidest things until im crying and i still weary somewhat baggy jeans and sneakers and tshirts most of t he time. my wardrobe is definitely not that of a sophisticated 31 year old woman. but im comfortable and i work at a place where we are premitted to dress casual. Why spend my money on appropriate business attire if i already have neat casual clothes and it's ok with our company? im not married, three of my best friends are, one about to be and aside from me, two of them have children, and one is about to have her first. I adore seeing my friends become parents some 10 years after me, it's such a sweet thing to me. I cry everytime one of them tells me they are pregnant. but i know my son and i will always have such a different relationship then my friends will with their children. just because that's how it is. when their child is 10 years old, they'll be 40 where as when my child was 10,i was 29. I have spoken with other people who've had children before they were legally able to drink and most of them agree with that statement. I know that I'm immature HOWEVER that does not make me irresponsible. I handle mine and I maintain a respectable distance between me and my son when it comes to certain things. yes i have to get on him now a days about showering and deoderant, etc, he's starting the allmighty "P". but i do not try to be his best buddy in the whole world. yes he pretty much goes everywhere with me but there are times where i make plans that he can come with me, and time when my plans will not include him, just has he likes to make plans with me as well as not with me. and i think it's very healthy that he can come to me and talk about anything and know he's going to get an honest straight forward answer. i don't beat around the bush, i give him 100% information as appropriate as neccessary. I did however have to hide the fact that I went to a green day concert over the summer that I did not tkae him to. both of us like that band and although i wouldn't mind taking him, sometimes I just need some time to have my own fun.