Comments on: Does the Bible condone slavery?

By: Josh Bozeman

Josh Bozeman — Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:28:33 +0000

Can I just mention one thing?
In regards to the whole issue of being able to see all the nations of the earth from a mountain, and claiming this proves the Bible in error. This is absurd.
First- you’e quoting the English translation, and it’s not always accurate. The word “world” is used to describe a famine- we know it wasn’t referring to a global famine. The phrase all the nations is English…what the original shows precisely, I don’t know.
Common sense alert- the Biblical authors weren’t idiots. They lived in a region of mountains and very tall ones at that…now, anyone with common sense knows that men who lived thousands of yrs in mountain terrain would surely know that a mt won’t allow you to see all the world. It’s clearly either a supernatural vision or a figure of speech. The writers would have to have lived their entire lives in a cave to not know you can’t see all the world from a mountain/hill. So, you take the obvious answer- they weren’t fools, they had been on many mountains themselves, thus it was a vision or figure of speech.

By: Joseph

Joseph — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:27:38 +0000

A note on the comment about Hebrew vocabulary being different than today’s English.
In the Tanakh [note 1] (an acronym for the Jewish Bible, or Old Testament) the same Hebrew word “eved” is used for slave and servant. For example, the land of Egypt is called the “beit avodim” (house of slavery) Exodus 20:2. Moses is described as an “eved Adonai” (servant of the Lord) Deuteronomy 34:5.
God freed the Israelites from slavery in Egypt so that they could be servants to Him.
“Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.” Leviticus 25:42
“for the Israelites belong to me as servants. They are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” Leviticus 25:55
So, while the same word is used to describe slavery and service to God, they are vastly different concepts. Slavery, while permitted, is not necessarily condoned. (See Lev. 25:42 “they must not be sold as slaves”). But all Israel is to be in service of God. “You will be for Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” Exodus 19:6.
Be well,
Joseph
1 Tanakh stands for the three-part division of Scripture: Torah (

By: lawyerchik1

lawyerchik1 — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:48:58 +0000

I know the differences between the places – the totality of the Scripture, not just the verses you want to read, supports the description I’ve presented.
Before Christ’s birth, there was a place referred to in the Gospels as “Abraham’s Bosom” where those whose faith in God’s fulfillment of His promise to send the Messiah were given comfort. Where those who died without such faith were committed was separated from “Abraham’s Bosom” by a great chasm. See Luke 16:14-31.
By the time you get to Revelation, after the millenial reign of Christ and the last battle, the devil and those who fight will him will be “thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.”
Death and Hades will also be thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 says, “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake of fire.” That’s what it says. “Lake of fire,” “torment”, “day and night forever and ever.”
The version I usually use is the New American Standard version; the New International Version is (somewhat) more readable, but it lacks the accuracy of the NASB.

By: perramik

perramik — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:10:25 +0000

Lawyerchik, I have to disagree with your assertion that a non-literalist viewpoint is necessarily formed by an unwillingness to accept your view of eternal, conscious torment for all unbelievers. You have made the claim yourself that the Scriptures are innerant as they were originally written, not as they’ve been translated, yet your view, which you seem to consider an open and shut case, is based much more on modern translation than original text. Specifically, mistranslation of the word “Aionion” as eternal, and translation of three greek words, Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus, as the pagan word “Hell”. Being an innerancy believing literalist far from necessitates sharing your believe in eternal, conscious torments.

By: lawyerchik1

lawyerchik1 — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:52:31 +0000

“”They did it too” isn’t a very convincing argument.”
Neither is “because Christians did something wrong, the whole system is invalid.”
“Neither the Bible nor Christians are a legitimate or even recognizable moral authority on the subject of sexual orientation.”
Aside from the fact that your statement evidences a total lack of understanding of what the Bible has to say on its value as moral authority or morality in general, the Bible is clear that ANY sin, no matter how great or small, is offensive to God and violates His perfect nature.
The grace revealed in the Bible is not that He condemns one sin or another but that He made a way for all people to be reconciled to Himself.
Romans is the best analysis of the whole sin picture in relation to man’s standing before God.
Romans 1:18-24: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made [i.e., creation]. So people are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done. They are filled with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless. Although they fully know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.
2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, whoever you are, when you judge someone else. For on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things.
The point of all of this is that the Bible IS the authority for morality, and that no one is excused. The purpose of the law (and the Bible’s recitation of it) is to demonstrate that all of us are without excuse – we are all sinners in need of God’s grace.
Romans 3:20- For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:22b-24: For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
The fact that all are sinners, however, and that as a result, anyone should just be allowed to do whatever because if it’s all under grace it’s all forgiven is also hogwash and Paul addresses that argument in Romans 6.
The point of resisting efforts to allow homosexuality to have equal status with marriage between a man and a woman a) defies God’s law; b) mocks the institution of marriage as God set it up; and, 3) perpetuates the moral slide illustrated in Romans 1.
The argument that because homosexuals have these feelings and this “wiring”, they should be allowed to act on those feelings is no more valid than arguing that a sociopath who recognizes no moral restrictions whatsoever or a pedophile should be allowed to follow his (or her) feelings – after all, if that’s how God “made” them, then it should be OK, right? Let me know when you plan to let your child go visit a pedophile…..

By: lawyerchik1

lawyerchik1 — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:30:56 +0000

The “cities of refuge” in the Old Testament were for people who had involuntarily killed someone – it was a place of safety, because otherwise, they might be “accidentally” killed in retaliation. See Numbers 35:10-29.
These cities were “for the Israelites, and for the foreigner, and for the settler among them, so that anyone who kills any person accidentally may flee there.”
The designation of cities of refuge had nothing to do with “the many who seek physical,political, economic freedom.”

By: Jeremiah

Jeremiah — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:32:57 +0000

So Christians must do whatever it is in their power to overturn unjust laws, or laws that are contrary to God’s law and His character?
Does that also include Christians standing against laws that make illegal aliens criminals, and treat human beings different because of their legal residential status? what should the Christian respond be? The Bible talks about cities of refuge. Can the USA be considered a place of refuge for the many who seek physical,political, economic freedom?

By: Eric Thacker

Eric Thacker — Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:47:08 +0000

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsÃ¢â‚¬â€and the things that are notÃ¢â‚¬â€to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from GodÃ¢â‚¬â€that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 18-31 (NIV)

By: Mike O

Mike O — Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:20:59 +0000

Does the Bible condone slavery? Does God ever allow something to go on that He doesn’t like? In the Old Testament we find what God thinks about divorce.
Mal 2:16 “For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce,
In the New Testament we have Jesus expanding on the subject.
Mt 19:8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
When Jesus walked the earth, more than half the people of the world would qualify to be called slaves. All God’s instructions on slavery mentioned earlier in the comments mitigate bad treatment of slaves. Begins to sound a lot like the situation with divorce.
I can understand why we as humans are caught up with this short life on this fallen earth but God who has a view and not a point of view as we do is a whole lot more interested in releasing us from our slavery to sin and providing for our eternity than in fixing this fallen world by countermanding the sinful choices we have made.

By: Foltz

Foltz — Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:39:21 +0000

And the atrocities committed by non-Christians against Christians on the premise that the world is somehow entitled to eliminate them from the face of the earth for their faith means their way better?
Of course not, but “They did it too” isn’t a very convincing argument.