It's "slouching" towards Gomorrah, not "sloughing."

Don't take this the wrong way, but in what context are we to take the word "reason" (as in "Victory of Reason") here? Reason is a term that I normally associate with humanism (of all kinds, including both secular and religious).

It seems very odd to apply the term broad-brush to Christianity. I'd think a more appropriate title might be something like "Victory of faith: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success."

And maybe this is covered in the book, but does the author have a thesis, as telegraphed in his title, as to why Christianity accomplished those things only in the West? And even there, only in select portions of the West (i.e. it does not seem to have accomplished that in Latin America, in fact it seems to have accomplished exactly the opposite there).

greg

Nevermind. I read the review on Amazon (which acknowledged that reason and religion are normally viewed as orthogonal to one another). If the review is to be believed, it sounds like Mr. Stark may be overstated the case somewhat. When it comes to scientific and rational advancement, certainly other religions have their place at the table too -- most notably Islam which had its scientific salad days centuries before Christianity.

And regarding Christianity's affinity for Capitalism (and vice-versa), wasn't it Christ who said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into Heaven?

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Doesn't exactly sound like a passage out of Friedman, does it?

greg

Not all of Christianity is wild-eyed blind faith. Try reading St. Augustine, or T. Aquinas.

Well, I don't know that I'd go that far about Augustine. Although he used reason to do so, he denied that the senses were worth anything when it came to learning about the world around us. The only knowledge worth having, according to him, was that which came from divine revelation.

Aquinas, on the other hand - if I were going to be a Christian, I suppose he'd be one I'd try to emulate.

(And yes, I prefer Aristotle to Plato as well as empiricists to any of those silly continental folk.)

I recall reading at some point from somebody (quite the foundation I'm laying) that monks' desire to measure time to pray at the right time of the day led to the invention of clocks. The ability to measure time accurately was a critical step on the way to modern science which in turn led to the serious challenges to a Christian world-view posed by the scientific method. I'm oversimplifying and glossing over and, even more, I haven't had any coffee this morning. But, there it is, for what it's worth.

Thanks for the link to what looks like an interesting thesis.

What we know as "capitalism" is more of a modern, post Locke, post Adam Smith, phenomenon, and there are many passages in the Bible which do not seem to support it.

Indeed, capitalism seems to be predicated on breaking one of the Ten Commandments -- the one against "coveting."

Christianity's main contribution to capitalism, in my opinion, was the Protestant work ethic, which was essential in making the system work.

Christianity's main contribution to capitalism, in my opinion, was the Protestant work ethic, which was essential in making the system work.

Which may explain why non-protestant Christianity doesn't seem to have had quite the energetic "captialism" as that found in protestant Christianity. France may be the exception here, but from my armchair perspective it seems the Protestant nations outperform, by "capitalist" metrics, the Catholic ones.

Maybe a better title then would be "Victory of Work: How Protestantism Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success."

greg

It's a work of fiction, but Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle gets into a lot of this. The Protestant and Jewish communities formed the strongest financial communities.

I've heard that Catholic notions about usury hindered financial developments in the Catholic nations. But I wonder if it might have more to do with the fact that Catholic governments controlled the precious metals. Protestant communities had to figure out how to make do without precious metals as currency which led to greater financial flexibility.

"Not all of Christianity is wild-eyed blind faith. Try reading St. Augustine, or T. Aquinas."

I would also suggest C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer, for more modern writings, and the broadcasts of Ravi Zacharias for your listening enjoyment. :)

Well, maybe from a material perspective we are not slouching toward Gamorrah, and even from an attending church pov, but what happens when you look a little deeper. Maybe more folks are going to churches, but what are those churches teaching (and maybe more are just available)? And you can't seriously suggest that we are not losing our minds culturally when you take a look at what passes for entertainment these days, and even "high culture". For example: last week I went to the museum of "fine" arts and the main displays consisted of a bunch of spraypainted garbage - literally - and a white room with a pneumatically controlled rubber mannequin attempting to slit it wrists with a razor blade. This isn't slouching???

Does this "improvement" in Christian culture include the Olsteen phenomena? ANd is that really improvement in quality or simply quantity? And does the "market competition" of pastors make them work karder for the Kingdom, or work harder to keep their flock by preaching what the flock wants to hear, not what it needs to hear?