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October 28, 2005

On nature and nurture

I'd like to add a small addendum to Paul's critique of Josh's post. Even if it is possible to state conclusively that men are naturally more promiscuous than women--which, as Paul points out, it's not, because of the practically insurmountable difficulties in disentangling cultural and genetic influences--it does not follow that gay men share these tendencies. Research has shown that homosexual men actually tend to follow female patterns of cognitive performance on spatial and linguistic tests, possibility because they show different levels of hormone release at the onset of puberty as compared to heterosexual men. Certain types of spatial performance, for example, can be enhanced in mice if they are injected with hormones at particular stages of development. Gay men, therefore, may have the "nurturing characteristics" of heterosexual women, whatever those might be.

Overall, linking behavioral differences to genetic influence is so problematic and so morally and politically suggestive that, in my opinion, such claims should only be made once we can link genes to neural structure to neural function to behavior. Given that we are most likely decades away from being able to compose such a coherent story for any field of human behavior, be it memory to object recognition to long-term planning, any definitive statement on innate male-female differences (or lack thereof) will be a very long time in coming. Until then we'll just be projecting our biases onto an almost completely blank screen and calling it science.

(Note, by the way, that my position does not amount to a denial that there are innate differences between men and women. Such differences obviously exist, and you will not find anyone in the field of cognitive science who denies that fact; nevertheless, we have essentially no idea what those disparities are, and relying on our intuitions is likely to be about as successful as relying on our intuitions about physics.)

Posted by Adam Tierney at October 28, 2005 05:07 PM

Comments

-- Even if it is possible to state conclusively that men are naturally more promiscuous than women--which, as Paul points out, it's not, because of the practically insurmountable difficulties in disentangling cultural and genetic influences--it does not follow that gay men share these tendencies. Research has shown that homosexual men actually tend to follow female patterns of cognitive performance on spatial and linguistic tests, possibility because they show different levels of hormone release at the onset of puberty as compared to heterosexual men. Certain types of spatial performance, for example, can be enhanced in mice if they are injected with hormones at particular stages of development. Gay men, therefore, may have the "nurturing characteristics" of heterosexual women, whatever those might be. --

Speaking as a gay man who agrees with my coblogger's sentiment, I think that the promiscuous (seed spreading) desire that men as a group have exists equally with gay men as with straight.

It's not that gay men have a "female" brain, it's rather that the brain of a typical gay man may be closer to the brain of a female than a straight man's brain is to a females. But the "gay man's" (I put it in quotes because there is obviously tremendous variation within the gay world; but stereotypical patterns do nonetheless exist) brain and psyche is rather an interesting combination of the stereotypical male and female characteristics.

Gay men I think have the same testosterone levels as straight men. And much of the sexual desire comes from there. Women have far less testosterone.

Posted by: Jon Rowe at October 28, 2005 07:26 PM | permalink

Based on actual behavior (as opposed to reading biological tea leaves), the evidence would suggest that in practice gay men are more promiscuous by far than gay women. Bath houses, "cruisy" bathrooms, and glory holes are phenomena linked to gay male promiscuity. I don't know of any lesbian equivalents.

Gay men are also much more frequent than lesbians (~3% vs. ~ 0.5%), so that could be distorting my perception.

Posted by: Jacob at October 28, 2005 09:37 PM | permalink

"Based on actual behavior (as opposed to reading biological tea leaves)"

...but as I and Paul have said repeatedly, that tendency could just as easily be due to enculturation.

Posted by: Tierney at October 30, 2005 05:05 PM | permalink

If every gay community in the world seems to give markedly less importance to monogamy, that would suggest to me that there is something more than culture at work. If on the other hand, there are monogamous gay communities floating around, I'd be wrong, and that would make for interesting study. If you know of such, let me know.

In any case, I say let gays have civil marriage. I think it's absurd, but our constitution allows lots of absurd things. If it's called a legal arrangement, I think most people could live with it.

Posted by: Jacob at October 31, 2005 09:00 AM | permalink

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