Comments on: Monkey on a typewriter

By: kam

kam — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:10:24 +0000

Who said you need musicianship to make good music? is a book with a lot of pages instantly good? its not about musicianship or things like that, its about making good music. good music comes in many forms, and there have always been classical musicians, and there have always been jug bands.
its just music…jeez.

By: Tierney

Tierney — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:11:09 +0000

Oddly, this thread has so far overlooked the fact that the Beatles (who have been cited several times as characterizing good musicianship) simply weren’t great performers. Ringo was certainly no better than Meg White, and it’s not like any of the band members would ever erupt into a virtuosic guitar solo. Rock/pop music often revolves around catchy songwriting more than flashy performances, which is why the Beatles were a better band than the Who, despite clearly being worse musicians.

By: Nick Blesch

Nick Blesch — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:43:42 +0000

It’s not the criticism that bothers me, it’s how the criticism is presented that bothers me. (i.e., it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it)
I feel like the post is unnecessarily critical, in that it’s one thing to try and objectively talk about a band’s musicianship (or lack thereof) and quite another to make tons of ridiculous analogies while openly mocking the band. I also feel like it’s quite clear from both Jonathan and David that they feel that only morons who don’t appreciate anything approximating what they deem to be “real” music listen to TWS, when my point above is simply that in matters of opinion, the only thing that matters is one’s opinion.
I don’t trash anybody for not liking the Old 97’s or for not having a crush on Neko Case, nor do I think that just because someone likes a Kelly Clarkson song they must have no taste in music whatsoever. They have taste – it’s just different from mine.

By: RiShawn Biddle

RiShawn Biddle — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:49:05 +0000

From where I sit, Nick, no one said you can’t enjoy the Stripes. Nor is anyone saying the group, like a broken clock, chimes out two good songs every now and then. But one can be a fan of a group — say Coldplay — and still admit that as musicians, they’re not very good. On the other hand, I still like “Clocks” and “Speed of Sound” and Chris Martin is a good songwriter. Michael Jackson wasn’t the best singer, but I still enjoyed his music and his talent as a performer. In both cases, their flaws are going to be legitimate sources of criticism for those who don’t like their music. And why shouldn’t it? More importantly, why be bothered by the criticism if you’re at least being candid with yourself about the flaws in the first place?

By: Nick Blesch

Nick Blesch — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:52:09 +0000

This is all just a matter of opinion – there’s no way to objectively prove that the White Stripes suck. Meg certainly isn’t as talented as (or at least, has never demonstrated that she is as talented as) an untrained ferret, and yes, Jack relies on power chords.
However, none of that even given as true means that they suck, that their success is unwarrented or undeserved, or that people who like them do not “care a great deal about aesthetic integrity and creative authenticity”. It’s as pointless as the John Lennon / Paul McCartney debate – you can like either, both, or neither and that’s perfectly okay because it’s your opinion.
My issue with the post (and why I think the criticisms are invalid) is not that you can’t criticize the White Stipes – you can. I take issue with the idea that it clearly follows from the criticisms that there’s anything objectively wrong with the White Stripes and moreso with the idea that there is something wrong with me because I happen to like them. The listenability of TWS is a matter of taste, not fact.

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:10:40 +0000

ITA discussed Joss Stone here. Her live shows (if her concert in Montreal is any indication) are even better than her studio performances.

By: RiShawn Biddle

RiShawn Biddle — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:04:31 +0000

Apologies for the repeat post:
Nick Blesch wrote:
“It sounds to me like you’re just liking something old and complaining about something new because such taste in music has been in vogue since Plato’s day.”
Didn’t read like that to me. It sounds more like there are legitimate criticisms of the Stripes and well-deserved at that. The Stripes do have a good stage presence. But they’re not good musicians nor do they come up with songs that are all that interesting.
This is proven by the fact that it took Joss Stone, who is all of 16, “Fell in Love with a Girl” or in her case, a boy, seem like a really interesting song. Stone’s great voice, along with those talented session musicians, made this song — whose lyrics are about as profound as the slogans on a box of Girl Scout Cookies (and that’s an insult to Girl Scout Cookies) — work. The original Stripes version isn’t worth the time.
Criticisms of the new are often due to the fact that they clash with the old and familiar. This isn’t the case with the Stripes. Jack and Meg, on the other hand, are just not very good.

By: RiShawn Biddle

RiShawn Biddle — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:00:51 +0000

Didn’t read like that to me. It sounds more like there are legitimate criticisms of the Stripes and well-deserved at that. The Stripes do have a good stage presence. But they’re not good musicians nor do they come up with songs that are all that good.
This is proven by the fact that it took Joss Stone, who is all of 16, “Fell in Love with a Girl” or in her case, a boy, seem like a really interesting song. Stone’s great voice, along with those talented session musicians, made this song — whose lyrics are about as profound as the slogans on a box of Girl Scout Cookies (and that’s an insult to Girl Scout Cookies) — work. The original Stripes version isn’t worth the time.
Sometimes criticisms of new interpretations or styles of music are due to the fact that the new clashes with the old and familiar. The Stripes, on the other hand, are just not very good.

By: Phil Aldridge

Phil Aldridge — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:05:49 +0000

Brian Eno is an example of talented minimalism. The White Stripes are an example of successful commercialism.
Besides, everyone knows that good music ended with Loverboy’s “Workin’ for the Weekend”. Everything else is just noise.

By: Nick Blesch

Nick Blesch — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:08:10 +0000

The problem isn’t lo-fi or punk–notice I pay respect to The Clash, Ramones, and Sex Pistols. My problem is generally with TWS, whose albums I don’t perceive as having much substance in comparison to some of the genuinely talented bands that have previously served as a checking mechanism for rock music.
Of course, when The Clash, The Ramones, and The Sex Pistols were all new, they were criticized because they just didn’t measure up to the Beatles or the Stones. And of course, the Beatles and the Stones were criticized because they were just pale rip-off imitations of American R&B (half the Beatles’ first singles were covers) and American blues. And of course, those musical styles were just adaptations of earlier music styles, which were just adaptations of still yet earlier musical styles… etc, etc, etc ad infinitum.
It sounds to me like you’re just liking something old and complaining about something new because such taste in music has been in vogue since Plato’s day.