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	<title>Comments on: Feddie Says Rehnquist Stepping Down</title>
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		<title>By: John R.</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11462</link>
		<dc:creator>John R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jon,
Unfortunately, your assertions do not bear historical scrutiny.  It&#039;s the height of anachronism to expect Christians of the founding era to speak in 21st century evangelical terms.
When Washington talks about &quot;an humble imitation of the divine author of our blessed religion,&quot; who exactly do you think he&#039;s talking about?  That we are supposed to &quot;imitate&quot; a deistic spirit god?
And there is, of course, the Paris Peace Treaty, which begins &quot;In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity,&quot; and which was signed by Adams, Franklin, and Jay.
The fact that they didn&#039;t all wear Christianity on their sleeves or speak the way Christian theologians do is hardly evidence that their religious understanding wasn&#039;t the common, dominant religious understanding of the time--Trinitarian Christianity.  Yes, we can see some of them drifting from this understanding late in life (Adams , for instance).  And there were a couple who probably never held it (Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, and Ethan Allen).  But in 1789, the vast majority of the signers of the Constitution were orthodox Christians.  They signed the Constitution &quot;in the year of our Lord,&quot; no mere convention considering the proponents of the French Revolution (which supposedly was so influential upon the Founders) started a new dating system to explicitly &lt;i&gt;repudiate&lt;/i&gt; Christianity.
&quot;Nominal&quot; &quot;heretic&quot; Christian George Washington told the Delaware Indians in 1779, &quot;You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that nothing shall ever be able to loose it.&quot;  He also recited the Apostles Creed weekly as a vestryman in the Anglican Church.
Madison&#039;s personal Bible shows his own handwritten notes, in which he says things like &quot;Holy Ghost. have ye recd. the Holy Ghost since ye Believed. The Apostle does not mean in its Sanctifying operations, but in its miraculous Gifts&quot; and &quot;Christ is a Greek name and signifies Anointed. v. 1...Christ did by the power of his Godhead purify our nature from all the pollution of our Ancestors.&quot;
Etc. etc. etc.  All of this information is publicly available in their own writings for those who seek the truth rather than simply regurgitating the revisionist history proferred over the past 70 or 80 years.
Ed,
If that was Madison&#039;s understanding of the First Amendment, it certainly was &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the understanding of those who ratified it, as demonstrated by their own actions in, for instance, declaring a national day of thanksgiving &lt;i&gt;the very next day&lt;/i&gt; after ratifying it.
And you&#039;ve changed arguments on me regarding the filibuster.  &quot;The Republicans do it too&quot; isn&#039;t an argument.  I fully agree.  Interest groups exert influence on both sides.  The point is, being pro-abortion is the Democrat litmus test on nominees.  Whether that&#039;s because of interest groups or whatever, it&#039;s non-negotiable.  I can only &lt;i&gt;hope&lt;/i&gt; the opposite will become non-negotiable to Republicans.  But the fact remains that the Dems are in the pockets of these pro-abort interest groups.  Why do you think it is that &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; formerly pro-life Democrat to run for president in the last 20 years has had to change his or her public position on the issue?
If the nominee is McConnell, they will attempt to filibuster him.  If public outcry ends it, great.  But I guarantee you they&#039;ll try it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,<br />
Unfortunately, your assertions do not bear historical scrutiny.  It&#8217;s the height of anachronism to expect Christians of the founding era to speak in 21st century evangelical terms.<br />
When Washington talks about &#8220;an humble imitation of the divine author of our blessed religion,&#8221; who exactly do you think he&#8217;s talking about?  That we are supposed to &#8220;imitate&#8221; a deistic spirit god?<br />
And there is, of course, the Paris Peace Treaty, which begins &#8220;In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity,&#8221; and which was signed by Adams, Franklin, and Jay.<br />
The fact that they didn&#8217;t all wear Christianity on their sleeves or speak the way Christian theologians do is hardly evidence that their religious understanding wasn&#8217;t the common, dominant religious understanding of the time&#8211;Trinitarian Christianity.  Yes, we can see some of them drifting from this understanding late in life (Adams , for instance).  And there were a couple who probably never held it (Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, and Ethan Allen).  But in 1789, the vast majority of the signers of the Constitution were orthodox Christians.  They signed the Constitution &#8220;in the year of our Lord,&#8221; no mere convention considering the proponents of the French Revolution (which supposedly was so influential upon the Founders) started a new dating system to explicitly <i>repudiate</i> Christianity.<br />
&#8220;Nominal&#8221; &#8220;heretic&#8221; Christian George Washington told the Delaware Indians in 1779, &#8220;You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that nothing shall ever be able to loose it.&#8221;  He also recited the Apostles Creed weekly as a vestryman in the Anglican Church.<br />
Madison&#8217;s personal Bible shows his own handwritten notes, in which he says things like &#8220;Holy Ghost. have ye recd. the Holy Ghost since ye Believed. The Apostle does not mean in its Sanctifying operations, but in its miraculous Gifts&#8221; and &#8220;Christ is a Greek name and signifies Anointed. v. 1&#8230;Christ did by the power of his Godhead purify our nature from all the pollution of our Ancestors.&#8221;<br />
Etc. etc. etc.  All of this information is publicly available in their own writings for those who seek the truth rather than simply regurgitating the revisionist history proferred over the past 70 or 80 years.<br />
Ed,<br />
If that was Madison&#8217;s understanding of the First Amendment, it certainly was <i>not</i> the understanding of those who ratified it, as demonstrated by their own actions in, for instance, declaring a national day of thanksgiving <i>the very next day</i> after ratifying it.<br />
And you&#8217;ve changed arguments on me regarding the filibuster.  &#8220;The Republicans do it too&#8221; isn&#8217;t an argument.  I fully agree.  Interest groups exert influence on both sides.  The point is, being pro-abortion is the Democrat litmus test on nominees.  Whether that&#8217;s because of interest groups or whatever, it&#8217;s non-negotiable.  I can only <i>hope</i> the opposite will become non-negotiable to Republicans.  But the fact remains that the Dems are in the pockets of these pro-abort interest groups.  Why do you think it is that <i>every</i> formerly pro-life Democrat to run for president in the last 20 years has had to change his or her public position on the issue?<br />
If the nominee is McConnell, they will attempt to filibuster him.  If public outcry ends it, great.  But I guarantee you they&#8217;ll try it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11461</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11461</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile, Jon gives a valuable link to a lecture by McConnell-Thanks!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, Jon gives a valuable link to a lecture by McConnell-Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11460</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 04:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11460</guid>
		<description>Ed, I am seriously unable to figure out what&#039;s going on here. You have your own blog, and you&#039;re posting much of the same commentary here.  It&#039;s almost pointless to comment on your own blog, since the comments posted there aren&#039;t transcribed here and vice versa.
What gives?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, I am seriously unable to figure out what&#8217;s going on here. You have your own blog, and you&#8217;re posting much of the same commentary here.  It&#8217;s almost pointless to comment on your own blog, since the comments posted there aren&#8217;t transcribed here and vice versa.<br />
What gives?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11459</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11459</guid>
		<description>We sometimes find error when we ascribe a belief to a founder and give the impression that because it was his belief or his position or that this was what he argued for that his position became enshrined.  The temple, more accruately, were the actual words used and ratified by the signers and then by the people. Too, founder&#039;s do change their minds, for instance,it is well documented by Jefferson&#039;s letter to Macon that Construction Construed and Constitution Vindicated by John Taylor &quot;...corrected some erring opinion into which I had slidden without sufficient examination&quot;. One of those errors was, I think, the unconstitutional invasions of states rights by the federal judiciary (judicial activism anyone?).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We sometimes find error when we ascribe a belief to a founder and give the impression that because it was his belief or his position or that this was what he argued for that his position became enshrined.  The temple, more accruately, were the actual words used and ratified by the signers and then by the people. Too, founder&#8217;s do change their minds, for instance,it is well documented by Jefferson&#8217;s letter to Macon that Construction Construed and Constitution Vindicated by John Taylor &#8220;&#8230;corrected some erring opinion into which I had slidden without sufficient examination&#8221;. One of those errors was, I think, the unconstitutional invasions of states rights by the federal judiciary (judicial activism anyone?).</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rowe</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11458</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11458</guid>
		<description>One interesting thing I&#039;ve noticed in my study of Founding documents and speeches where our Founders did mentioned &quot;God&quot; or the &quot;Supernatural&quot; -- exactly as Madison is quoted -- is that they did so in ways that systematically avoided explicitly Christian language.
They often alluded to an overriding &quot;Divine Providence&quot; but almost never &quot;Jesus Christ&quot; never citing versus and chapters of Scripture, and never in Trinarian langauge (which makes sense given that the most prominent Founders -- Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin -- disbelieved in the Trinity, and were private heretics according to most understandings of orthodox Christianity of the day).
Similarly the Founders oft-mentioned &quot;religion&quot; and how it was good for society, but never defined &quot;religion.&quot;
Our Founders (the men who Declared Independence in 1776 and established the Constitution in 1787 -- not necc. the men who ran the state governments) were extremely reasonable in setting the &quot;lowest common denominator&quot; bar of religion so low as to include pretty much any monotheistic belief system, which would include Trinitarians, unitarians, deists and heretics of every lot.
See my most recent posts on George Washington and his nominal religiousity.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One interesting thing I&#8217;ve noticed in my study of Founding documents and speeches where our Founders did mentioned &#8220;God&#8221; or the &#8220;Supernatural&#8221; &#8212; exactly as Madison is quoted &#8212; is that they did so in ways that systematically avoided explicitly Christian language.<br />
They often alluded to an overriding &#8220;Divine Providence&#8221; but almost never &#8220;Jesus Christ&#8221; never citing versus and chapters of Scripture, and never in Trinarian langauge (which makes sense given that the most prominent Founders &#8212; Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin &#8212; disbelieved in the Trinity, and were private heretics according to most understandings of orthodox Christianity of the day).<br />
Similarly the Founders oft-mentioned &#8220;religion&#8221; and how it was good for society, but never defined &#8220;religion.&#8221;<br />
Our Founders (the men who Declared Independence in 1776 and established the Constitution in 1787 &#8212; not necc. the men who ran the state governments) were extremely reasonable in setting the &#8220;lowest common denominator&#8221; bar of religion so low as to include pretty much any monotheistic belief system, which would include Trinitarians, unitarians, deists and heretics of every lot.<br />
See my most recent posts on George Washington and his nominal religiousity.</p>
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		<title>By: senatorgirth</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11457</link>
		<dc:creator>senatorgirth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11457</guid>
		<description>Check out this interesting journal article on the ideology of potential Bush Supreme Court nominees. The study doesn&#039;t rank McConnell, but it&#039;s worth a look:
http://www.umassd.edu/cas/polisci/bushsct.pdf
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out this interesting journal article on the ideology of potential Bush Supreme Court nominees. The study doesn&#8217;t rank McConnell, but it&#8217;s worth a look:<br />
<a href="http://www.umassd.edu/cas/polisci/bushsct.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.umassd.edu/cas/polisci/bushsct.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ed Brayton</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11456</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Brayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11456</guid>
		<description>John R. wrote:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Yes, Madison later changed his mind. But are we to read the Constitution through the revised views of some people who were involved in it 40 or 50 years after the fact, or are we supposed to read it according to what they meant when they wrote it and when it was ratified?&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Madison didn&#039;t change his mind, he violated the principles for which he proposed the first amendment and regretted having done so. He didn&#039;t just decide later it meant something different. I&#039;d ask the same question Harry Jaffa asks: are we to be guided by the principles these men expounded, or by their sometimes contradictory application of them? I&#039;m not arguing that strict separation is the only way to interpret the first amendment, I&#039;m merely arguing that it is one of the two primary ways one can interpret it, and that comes directly from the founders themselves. Both strict separation and accomodationism can be traced directly to the founders, which means it&#039;s not quite as simple as finding &quot;the&quot; original intent or original understanding of those provisions. And finding an instance in which Madison violated his own standards does not make those standards any less compelling.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And I think you wildly underestimate the influence of groups like PFAW, NARAL, the Alliance for Justice and the ACLU in Democratic politics. They&#039;re not &quot;fringe groups.&quot; They call the shots. (Just read the leaked memos for confirmation.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m always a bit amused by this feigned outrage over &quot;leaked memos&quot; showing that a party coordinates their efforts with powerful advocacy groups among their constituents. Partisans react with horror, as though the other party didn&#039;t do the exact same thing. The Republican party coordinates their efforts with groups like Focus on the Family just like the Democratic party coordinates their efforts with People for the American Way and similar groups. Indeed, on this very same issue of judicial appointments, prominent organizations like the American Center for Law and Justice have been appointed specifically to defend and provide cover for Bush&#039;s nominees. Just like there is opposition research, there is anti-opposition research and both parties work with advocacy groups on such matters. Karl Rove even holds weekly strategy sessions with James Dobson and other prominent religious right leaders. Those groups try to exert maximum influence on the party, but parties are not ideological first and foremost, they are utilitarian. The interests of the party&#039;s ideologues are counter-balanced by lots of other things that form political reality.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Roe (and his many statemenst against it) was continuously brought up during McConnell&#039;s first confirmation battle, and it&#039;s the absolute Democrat litmus test for the SCOTUS. I&#039;ll be happy to be proven wrong. But I&#039;d bet my house they&#039;ll throw everything they&#039;ve got at him.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Well okay, but perhaps you should reread what I said. I didn&#039;t say those groups wouldn&#039;t oppose him. In fact, I said they would. But I also said they won&#039;t be successful and they won&#039;t be able to garner nearly enough support among Democrats in the Senate to be a threat to his nomination. You have to look at all of the factors and how they interact and not just look at each individual factor and say &quot;hey, that didn&#039;t help Bork&quot; or someone else. When you add up all of those factors, I think you have as close as you can possibly get to an easily confirmable nominee.
&lt;p&gt;There will be a fight, and they will certainly mine all of McConnell&#039;s voluminous writings for arguments to use against him. In fact, they&#039;ve already done so and they probably already have talking points, memos, op-ed pieces, and maybe even TV commercials in the can and ready to go. I&#039;ll probably even be critical of him myself on some of those things. And that&#039;s okay, isn&#039;t it? Politics is about the clash of ideas and interests. But in the end, there isn&#039;t enough there to stop him from being confirmed. He&#039;s not Robert Bork (he doesn&#039;t have his track record of saying completely loony things), who was rightly and justifiably kept off the court. McConnell is a serious and independent minded scholar with broad support across the political spectrum. If nominated, he&#039;ll get through.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John R. wrote:</p>
<p>
<blockquote>Yes, Madison later changed his mind. But are we to read the Constitution through the revised views of some people who were involved in it 40 or 50 years after the fact, or are we supposed to read it according to what they meant when they wrote it and when it was ratified?</p></blockquote>
<p>Madison didn&#8217;t change his mind, he violated the principles for which he proposed the first amendment and regretted having done so. He didn&#8217;t just decide later it meant something different. I&#8217;d ask the same question Harry Jaffa asks: are we to be guided by the principles these men expounded, or by their sometimes contradictory application of them? I&#8217;m not arguing that strict separation is the only way to interpret the first amendment, I&#8217;m merely arguing that it is one of the two primary ways one can interpret it, and that comes directly from the founders themselves. Both strict separation and accomodationism can be traced directly to the founders, which means it&#8217;s not quite as simple as finding &#8220;the&#8221; original intent or original understanding of those provisions. And finding an instance in which Madison violated his own standards does not make those standards any less compelling.
</p>
<p>
<blockquote>And I think you wildly underestimate the influence of groups like PFAW, NARAL, the Alliance for Justice and the ACLU in Democratic politics. They&#8217;re not &#8220;fringe groups.&#8221; They call the shots. (Just read the leaked memos for confirmation.)</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m always a bit amused by this feigned outrage over &#8220;leaked memos&#8221; showing that a party coordinates their efforts with powerful advocacy groups among their constituents. Partisans react with horror, as though the other party didn&#8217;t do the exact same thing. The Republican party coordinates their efforts with groups like Focus on the Family just like the Democratic party coordinates their efforts with People for the American Way and similar groups. Indeed, on this very same issue of judicial appointments, prominent organizations like the American Center for Law and Justice have been appointed specifically to defend and provide cover for Bush&#8217;s nominees. Just like there is opposition research, there is anti-opposition research and both parties work with advocacy groups on such matters. Karl Rove even holds weekly strategy sessions with James Dobson and other prominent religious right leaders. Those groups try to exert maximum influence on the party, but parties are not ideological first and foremost, they are utilitarian. The interests of the party&#8217;s ideologues are counter-balanced by lots of other things that form political reality.
</p>
<p>
<blockquote>Roe (and his many statemenst against it) was continuously brought up during McConnell&#8217;s first confirmation battle, and it&#8217;s the absolute Democrat litmus test for the SCOTUS. I&#8217;ll be happy to be proven wrong. But I&#8217;d bet my house they&#8217;ll throw everything they&#8217;ve got at him.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well okay, but perhaps you should reread what I said. I didn&#8217;t say those groups wouldn&#8217;t oppose him. In fact, I said they would. But I also said they won&#8217;t be successful and they won&#8217;t be able to garner nearly enough support among Democrats in the Senate to be a threat to his nomination. You have to look at all of the factors and how they interact and not just look at each individual factor and say &#8220;hey, that didn&#8217;t help Bork&#8221; or someone else. When you add up all of those factors, I think you have as close as you can possibly get to an easily confirmable nominee.
</p>
<p>There will be a fight, and they will certainly mine all of McConnell&#8217;s voluminous writings for arguments to use against him. In fact, they&#8217;ve already done so and they probably already have talking points, memos, op-ed pieces, and maybe even TV commercials in the can and ready to go. I&#8217;ll probably even be critical of him myself on some of those things. And that&#8217;s okay, isn&#8217;t it? Politics is about the clash of ideas and interests. But in the end, there isn&#8217;t enough there to stop him from being confirmed. He&#8217;s not Robert Bork (he doesn&#8217;t have his track record of saying completely loony things), who was rightly and justifiably kept off the court. McConnell is a serious and independent minded scholar with broad support across the political spectrum. If nominated, he&#8217;ll get through.</p>
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		<title>By: John R.</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11455</link>
		<dc:creator>John R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11455</guid>
		<description>Ed,
Yes, Madison later changed his mind.  But are we to read the Constitution through the revised views of some people who were involved in it 40 or 50 years after the fact, or are we supposed to read it according to what they meant when they wrote it and when it was ratified?  Again, Madison is an instructive guide here:&lt;blockquote&gt;I entirely concur in the propriety of resorting to the sense in which the Constitution was accepted and ratified by the nation. In that sense alone it is the legitimate Constitution. And if that be not the guide in expounding it, there can be no security for a consistent and stable, more than for a faithful, exercise of its powers....What a metamorphosis would be produced in the code of law if all its ancient phraseology were to be taken in its modern sense.
(--letter to Henry Lee, June 25, 1824)&lt;/blockquote&gt;Regarding McConnell, I&#039;d love for you to be right.  But I still don&#039;t think you are.
The highly politicized ABA&#039;s rating these days counts for bupkis (look what it did for Miguel Estrada and Charles Pickering and Carolyn Kuhl and Robert Bork etc. etc. etc.), as does the support of a notable liberal here or there.
And I think you wildly underestimate the influence of groups like PFAW, NARAL, the Alliance for Justice and the ACLU in Democratic politics.  They&#039;re not &quot;fringe groups.&quot;  They call the shots.  (Just read the leaked memos for confirmation.)
He wasn&#039;t opposed for ideological reasons?  Please.  It was not by accident that McConnell was included with Pickering and Owen in the group that was stonewalled.  They let McConnell through only days after being smeared in the 2002 elections, and most of the Dems didn&#039;t show up to vote on him.  Orrin Hatch, his biggest, home state supporter, was going to take over the judiciary committee.  It was a butt-covering move for the Dems, plain and simple.  This year is not an election year, and the Supreme Court is the whole enchilada.
&lt;i&gt;Roe&lt;/i&gt; (and his many statemenst against it) was continuously brought up during McConnell&#039;s first confirmation battle, and it&#039;s the absolute Democrat litmus test for the SCOTUS.  I&#039;ll be happy to be proven wrong.  But I&#039;d bet my house they&#039;ll throw everything they&#039;ve got at him.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,<br />
Yes, Madison later changed his mind.  But are we to read the Constitution through the revised views of some people who were involved in it 40 or 50 years after the fact, or are we supposed to read it according to what they meant when they wrote it and when it was ratified?  Again, Madison is an instructive guide here:<br />
<blockquote>I entirely concur in the propriety of resorting to the sense in which the Constitution was accepted and ratified by the nation. In that sense alone it is the legitimate Constitution. And if that be not the guide in expounding it, there can be no security for a consistent and stable, more than for a faithful, exercise of its powers&#8230;.What a metamorphosis would be produced in the code of law if all its ancient phraseology were to be taken in its modern sense.<br />
(&#8211;letter to Henry Lee, June 25, 1824)</p></blockquote>
<p>Regarding McConnell, I&#8217;d love for you to be right.  But I still don&#8217;t think you are.<br />
The highly politicized ABA&#8217;s rating these days counts for bupkis (look what it did for Miguel Estrada and Charles Pickering and Carolyn Kuhl and Robert Bork etc. etc. etc.), as does the support of a notable liberal here or there.<br />
And I think you wildly underestimate the influence of groups like PFAW, NARAL, the Alliance for Justice and the ACLU in Democratic politics.  They&#8217;re not &#8220;fringe groups.&#8221;  They call the shots.  (Just read the leaked memos for confirmation.)<br />
He wasn&#8217;t opposed for ideological reasons?  Please.  It was not by accident that McConnell was included with Pickering and Owen in the group that was stonewalled.  They let McConnell through only days after being smeared in the 2002 elections, and most of the Dems didn&#8217;t show up to vote on him.  Orrin Hatch, his biggest, home state supporter, was going to take over the judiciary committee.  It was a butt-covering move for the Dems, plain and simple.  This year is not an election year, and the Supreme Court is the whole enchilada.<br />
<i>Roe</i> (and his many statemenst against it) was continuously brought up during McConnell&#8217;s first confirmation battle, and it&#8217;s the absolute Democrat litmus test for the SCOTUS.  I&#8217;ll be happy to be proven wrong.  But I&#8217;d bet my house they&#8217;ll throw everything they&#8217;ve got at him.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Brayton</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11454</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Brayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11454</guid>
		<description>Kerry wrote:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;But Locke v. Davey doesn&#039;t forbid states (or federally funded colleges) from providing scholarships that will be used for theological studies, it merely permits states to determine that they don&#039;t want scholarship money to be used to study theology. I believe the Court made clear this important &quot;play in the joints&quot; aspect of their decision. States have latitude to decide whether to restrict scholarships to non-theological studies or to not restrict scholarships on that ground.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes, I understand the distinction, but I still think the decision was incorrect. I think it showed a hostility to religion that is not permitted under controlling precedent by singling out only theological studies for a prohibition. Obviously, the court disagreed. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerry wrote:</p>
<p>
<blockquote>But Locke v. Davey doesn&#8217;t forbid states (or federally funded colleges) from providing scholarships that will be used for theological studies, it merely permits states to determine that they don&#8217;t want scholarship money to be used to study theology. I believe the Court made clear this important &#8220;play in the joints&#8221; aspect of their decision. States have latitude to decide whether to restrict scholarships to non-theological studies or to not restrict scholarships on that ground.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I understand the distinction, but I still think the decision was incorrect. I think it showed a hostility to religion that is not permitted under controlling precedent by singling out only theological studies for a prohibition. Obviously, the court disagreed. </p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down/comment-page-1/#comment-11453</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intheagora.com/2005/06/feddie_says_rehnquist_stepping_down.html#comment-11453</guid>
		<description>Ed and Wormeater,
You two stated:
Where a general public program gives scholarship money to a student for high achievement, I don&#039;t think there should be limits placed upon the type of college it can be used to pay for, or the type of program of study one can pursue while using that scholarship money.
Thanks for the clarification. After doing a little more reading &amp; thinking about it, I agree with you (and I guess McConnell as well) here, and in some ways it seems Locke v Davey actually violates the Establishment Clause in that it keeps people from freely practicing (or studying) religion. If this is the extent of his accomodationist stance, then I have no problem with it. However, I think I&#039;ll need to look into this issue further...
***
But &lt;i&gt;Locke v. Davey&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t forbid states (or federally funded colleges) from providing scholarships that will be used for theological studies, it merely permits states to determine that they don&#039;t want scholarship money to be used to study theology.  I believe the Court made clear this important &quot;play in the joints&quot; aspect of their decision.  States have latitude to decide whether to restrict scholarships to non-theological studies or to not restrict scholarships on that ground.
To be against &lt;i&gt;Locke&lt;/i&gt;, you have to believe that states should not be allowed to limit scholarships to non-religious study.  That&#039;s a defensible view, but, to me, your posts both muddled this important distinction.  (Particularly as you suggest Locke violates the Establishment clause.  First, it can&#039;t.  Second, the principle violated, if any, is the Free Exercise clause.  The two conflict and the Justices decided that although the Establishment Clause didn&#039;t require the scholarship program to operate as it did, the Free Exercise Clause didn&#039;t forbid it to so operate.)
I think it was a decent split-the-baby decision.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed and Wormeater,<br />
You two stated:<br />
Where a general public program gives scholarship money to a student for high achievement, I don&#8217;t think there should be limits placed upon the type of college it can be used to pay for, or the type of program of study one can pursue while using that scholarship money.<br />
Thanks for the clarification. After doing a little more reading &#038; thinking about it, I agree with you (and I guess McConnell as well) here, and in some ways it seems Locke v Davey actually violates the Establishment Clause in that it keeps people from freely practicing (or studying) religion. If this is the extent of his accomodationist stance, then I have no problem with it. However, I think I&#8217;ll need to look into this issue further&#8230;<br />
***<br />
But <i>Locke v. Davey</i> doesn&#8217;t forbid states (or federally funded colleges) from providing scholarships that will be used for theological studies, it merely permits states to determine that they don&#8217;t want scholarship money to be used to study theology.  I believe the Court made clear this important &#8220;play in the joints&#8221; aspect of their decision.  States have latitude to decide whether to restrict scholarships to non-theological studies or to not restrict scholarships on that ground.<br />
To be against <i>Locke</i>, you have to believe that states should not be allowed to limit scholarships to non-religious study.  That&#8217;s a defensible view, but, to me, your posts both muddled this important distinction.  (Particularly as you suggest Locke violates the Establishment clause.  First, it can&#8217;t.  Second, the principle violated, if any, is the Free Exercise clause.  The two conflict and the Justices decided that although the Establishment Clause didn&#8217;t require the scholarship program to operate as it did, the Free Exercise Clause didn&#8217;t forbid it to so operate.)<br />
I think it was a decent split-the-baby decision.</p>
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