Brawl, Continued
Posted by Joshua Claybourn on 20 November 2004 | 18 responses
For those of you like PunchTheBag who haven’t seen the Pacers-Pistons brawl, which some are labeling as the biggest sports fight of all time (a label I disagree with), you may watch the video here. More videos of it may be found here. The fallout of all this? Thus far Artest, O’Neil, Jackson, and Wallace have been suspended ‘indefinitely’ by the NBA. Lucas Sayre offers his opinion here of other actions to be taken.
18 Responses to “Brawl, Continued”
Bigger than the huge riot that occurred at the Golota/Bowe fight? The one that left 20-odd civilians and cops injured? I’m with Josh on this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Golota
If Latrell Sprewell got banned for a year for strangling and threatening to kill his coach, then Ron Artest should be banned for life. If he were a non-athlete, he would have been locked up long ago. Talk about double standards in this country.
To my knowledge, though, Sprewell’s coach did not throw chairs, drinks and other items at him without cause.
Well, P.J. Carlesimo did tell Sprewell to “put some mustard on that pass.” And he had a track record of yelling and screaming at players over the smallest things; Sprewell wasn’t the first to complain, just the first to react violently.
As for Artest, not to excuse what the fans did, but he certainly provoked them by intentionally clothes-lining their best player, then nonchalantly going to lie down on the scorers’ table, as if the fact he had mugged a crowd favorite wasn’t a big deal to him. Sprewell, at least, didn’t do anything to provoke Carlesimo, other than being a selfish, lazy player, over which any NBA coach would have a right to be angry.
Anything he may have done to provoke the fans was certainly less direct than what they did to provoke his venture into the stands, and was a lot less capable of justifying their throwing of solid objects at him than the throwing of solid objects was capable of justifying his response.
The only reason it could be appropriate to punish him for this is that as a professional basketball player at a basketball game, he was the center of attention, and taking actions that a normal person would be able to take could cause, well, what it caused on Friday. Normally, a person should not have to tolerate a crowd throwing objects and liquids at him, whether or not they like the way he was playing basketball, and whether or not he was in range.
Artest’s life wasn’t in danger when he got hit by that cup; it obviously didn’t blind him or give him a concussion, as he jumped right up and leapt into the stands. He was certainly putting the lives of numerous fans in danger, however, when he started throwing punches. This guy is, what, nearly seven feet tall with pounds of pure muscle? If I had been a fan, I certainly would have been scared out of my wits.
I agree with Eric, Artest would have been in prision by now if not for basketball, he has demonstrated he has no common sense whatsoever. He is a horrible embarrassment to the organization. Looking at this and combined with all his other behavior in the past…get rid of him.
As for Artest, not to excuse what the fans did, but he certainly provoked them by intentionally clothes-lining their best player
I’ve seen video of that foul, it was’t anything outside the NBA norm. The aftermath though… certainly outside the norm.
That foul was hardly a “clothesline”–it was just a good hard foul in the NBA. Wallace’s blow to the throat was the first inappropriate action in that whole sequence…if you want to talk about banning someone for life, then talk about Wallace, because his action was closer to what Sprewell did.
If Artest wants to lie on the scorer’s table after taking a blow to the throat, well, I don’t see what’s wrong with that. What IS wrong is chucking things at people. Should the players have hit fans? No…but we weren’t in their situation: in a hostile environment, surrounded by fans throwing things at you…it was an unprecedented situation, which means that no one had any frame of reference for considering beforehand “What am I going to do if dozens of fans stream onto the floor and charge me and throw cups and folding chairs in my direction?” My first instinct would be self-preservation, and it seems the players’ was as well.
I don’t know how many of you have been in on the floor of a large, full arena, when the crowd’s going nuts, but it’s not a situation that conducive to rational thought…especially when you’re in physical danger. The actions by Detroit’s fans were atrocious, and the NDA should take away their franchise and move it here to Kansas City…
Whoops, NBA. Not NDA.
Well, Bobby, that’s certainly one way we could get a team. I don’t follow sports that we don’t have teams in that much. I’d prefer an NBA team over an NHL team for the new arena but that’s based on the fight to sport ratio of the two leagues so the NBA should get a grip. I want to see a game, not fights interspersed with a game. The only boxing I’ve seen in years is in the Olympics and I’m OK with that. We could always hope for both an NBA team and an AFL team.
In defense of the players, I will say that the fans were acting like barbarians, and those who threw things at the Pacers’ players and coaches should be held to the same standards as the players who instigated the fights. If that means canceling season tickets for some, so be it. If it means preventing the more violent ones from ever attending an NBA game anywhere again, that will make fans think twice about staying and fighting.
But this is far, far from the first time fans have thrown things at players, and I cannot remember a player ever reacting as violently before. And the fans, although they certainly are better off than the average Joe, are still ponying up outrageous sums to subsidize the lifestyles of those in the fight. If someone were threatening my life rather than entertaining me, I would certainly want my money back. And there were, what, 20,000 fans there, and just a few dozen, at the most, did anything remotely violent. If the same proportion of fans as players on the court had reacted as the Pacers did, some people would have been carried out on stretchers.
As for the “hot-and-sweaty” environment argument–sure, that would make anyone lose the ability to think clearly. But Artest and the other players aren’t rookies; they’ve played hundreds of games under such conditions. That should not have affected them.
Another thing about the foul, too: it happened at the end of a blowout. There was absolutely no reason for Artest to be anywhere near Wallace. What is even more puzzling is that Artest was on the WINNING team. I guess, if he had been on the loser and had thought Michael Jordan would magically appear in uniform, there would be hope, and trying to prevent a player from scoring would make some sense. But that foul, even if it maybe wasn’t any worse than a Shaq one, was totally unwarranted. At the very lesat, it was terrible sportsmanship, and Artest should have been penalized just for that.
Uh, yeah…fouls never happen late in blowouts…
Uh, yeah, Eric, you’re ignorant and about as idiotic as a Detroit fan. I’m glad you think players should just lie down at the end of games and goof around. You’re doing a nice job showing your incredible knowledge of sports.
The game was an incredibly hotly contest game between two teams that *hate* each other. Nobody’s going to just let someone get a lay-up. Wallace was mad because the Pacers had kicked his butt and couldn’t take a tough foul. Eric, please don’t post such comments that lack any thought. You waste people’s time.
Uhh, Daniel, I think you meant to be addressing Bobby there, not Eric. Your response certainly was in line with addressing Bobby’s point, not Eric’s.
That said, I agree with you. We cannot ask athletes to “take it easy” towards the end of games– especially big games like this one. If my memory serves me correctly, there was about 2 minutes remaining in the game and the Pacers were up more than 14 or 15 points or close to that.
When players take it easy as games wind down, suddenly seemingly large leads are quickly erased– especially at the professional level. I have seen teams lose who had leads nearly this large.
To ask players to take it easy is to let them/force them to develop bad habits which could cost a team a couple games in the future.
Oops. Never mind. I didn’t see there was a little post in there, strike the first line of my last comment.
Brawl, Continued
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